FROM THE NYHC BOOK ARCHIVES: Alex Brown (An XXX-Mas Gift For Everyone!)
In the holiday spirit, this weeks’ subscriber-only post will be available to one and all. I hope you appreciate it!
This interview with the late, great Alex Brown (Schism fanzine editor and guitarist for Side By Side, Project X, and Gorilla Biscuits) was conducted for my second book, NYHC: New York Hardcore 1980 - 1990 on March 8, 2013. Enjoy and happy holidays!
Tony Rettman: What was your knowledge of NYHC coming into the city from Iowa? Alex Brown: My knowledge of the NYHC was limited to whatever records I could find along with the Maximum Rock ‘N’ Roll scene reports; which were completely slanted towards the False Prophets and Artless side of things, as they had Mykel Board doing the reportage. I had the Agnostic Front Victim In Pain album and the Cause for Alarm 7" and was fascinated particularly by the AF lp; Nazi imagery, gatefold sleeve with that iconic image of tattooed tough guys rocking out. Even the Rat Cage logo and graphics had that NYC attitude about them. The music was amazing as well, a blur, a rapid-fire assault on the normalcy vibe, a cry for something different, something new, something raw and of the streets. So yeah, my knowledge of the scene was very much limited to vinyl and zines.
Had you been to New York prior to going to school there?
had been to New York prior to moving there for school and was always struck by the energy, the constant jostle, the noise, the smell, and the grit of the place. My impression was pretty much the same when I got there. I moved there at the end of Koch's regime and then Dinkins. I remember that as the "real" New York City. The total grime of the place, the whores, the drugs, the addicts, the bums, the bars, the punks, the skins, the scary fucked up neighborhoods, and the relative safety of an overpriced crappy apartment. Things all changed once Guiliani put his stamp on the city for better or worse. I don't know if it's me or just the fact that I'm older but back then, prior to 1990, there seemed like there was always something or somebody lurking in the shadows looking to take what you had. It's so much safer these days and I don't know if that's a good thing or not. I guess we tend to romanticize the good old wild west days of that time and place.
Once you got there, did you jump right into going to matinees?
I did jump right into the CB's shows. I had been there a few years before visiting a friend and we walked by CB's on a Sunday afternoon. This would have been autumn 1984. I remember Murphy's Law was playing and I really wanted to go see them but my friend was a long-haired art jazz guy and the crowd outside looked really scary. I still regret not going to that show.
The second day I was in the city, I went to see the Sunday matinee to see Youth of Today and Bold(their first show as Bold) and I think Death Before Dishonor also played before changing their name to Supertouch. I had written a letter to Cappo before I moved to New York City hoping to find some cool people to hang out with but never heard back from him. I met him and Porcell after that show and ended up hanging out with them the following week along with Richie from Underdog who was also playing with YOT at that point. I probably went to every matinee that I could at that point. The energy in that place was amazing. The sound was great. There was always the threat of violence in the air and you were more likely than not to catch a good fight outside the club on any given Sunday.
Who were the first people from the scene to take you in?
Cappo and Porcell were my first friends in that scene along with the other guys in the band and their crew. I recall driving down to Philly with them, I think Craig was playing bass and Drew was on drums, Mark Goober and Mark Ryan came along to represent. Everybody was wearing Rangers hockey jerseys and as we were getting out of the van Mark Ryan said something about how we had to represent NYC and dance hard, something like that. It sounded kind of funny to me but it felt cool to be included and part of the inside of such an amazing band as Youth of Today. Whatever you think about them personally or politically(they had such a knack for pissing people off), they were one of the best live bands I've ever seen.
I remember I went for a walk trying to find CB's, this is my second day in the city, I was walking down St. Mark's and I see this chubby little skinhead at Ray's pizza on the corner of Third Ave and I thought he looked really cool; boots and braces, the whole look. That chubby little skin turned out to be Luke Abbey, another early friend and to this day a good friend and bandmate. Chris Daley gave me a copy of that Bri Hurley photo book Everybody's Scene when we played out in California last summer and lo and behold there is a picture of Luke from that same day sitting outside CB's. I would imagine he couldn't get in since he was only 14 or 15 at the time. Other early friends were Matt Bold, Gavin VanVlack, Mike Judge, Raybeez, Walter Schreifels, Dylan, Chris Burr, Max Wilker, Sammy Siegler, Tommy Carroll, and Gus Pena. I'm sure there are lots more. It's been so long ago.
Can you describe what that first CBGB’s matinee was like?
Youth of Today blew my mind the first time I saw them. I had never seen a frontman like Cappo. Pure energy. Animal growl vocals. He looked so cool on stage, it was really impressive. Bold was great too. I always wish their album had been recorded properly. I think their legacy is a bit overlooked due to that sub-standard recording along with the fact that they didn't live in New York City and thus were seen as outsiders to people that that sort of stuff mattered too. There were a lot of amazing bands then; Sick of it All, Altercation, Warzone, DBD/Supertouch, the early incarnations of GB, Straight Ahead! That band was another mind-blower. Tommy was right there with Cappo as being the scene's best frontman. Dude was scary too. He was an amateur boxer, an Irish kid from way the fuck uptown who was not one to be messed with. They were fucking amazing live.
Did you know about Youth of Today prior to moving to New York?
I had a copy of Can't Close My Eyes. I think it came out the summer before I moved to New York City. It was just one of those records. It sounded like brutal early Hardcore; think Negative Approach meets early SSD and throw it on Kevin Second's label. I was hooked and of course, was hoping to meet those guys when I moved there. I was into the straight edge thing and loved what they were about so it was kind of a no-brainer. I didn't know that there was such a thing as the Youth Crew before going to New York and still don't really know what it was or if it was just a convenient term to tag with anyone who looked a certain way and hung with bands that weren't into the gutter drug scene.
How did the name change for your ‘zine from Love Seat to Schism happen?
I got cracked on really hard during a road trip somewhere. I think it was Richie that was doing most of the needling, saying what a soft name that was for a fanzine. Raybeez would always use that word. "Yo, Schism bo" was a frequent refrain of his to refer to anything not cool or worthy of conflict. It was also one of the names that Jordan and Ray considered using for their label which became Revelation. I was living with Cappo at that point so I must have pilfered it from them but I remember taking it from Raybeez and him getting pissed about it, saying something about how that was his word or something like that. I felt like it was a continuation of Loveseat, inasmuch as it was my deal but probably should have started it as something new rather than just changing the name and keeping the numbers going. I think I thought it would look cooler the more numbers of issues I had if that makes any sense. It definitely became a different thing when Porcell came aboard. He brought a different sensibility to the fanzine and had a lot more connections than I did. He was also much more willing to let it rip and not really care what people thought...either that or he was just into ruffling people's feathers. He was definitely responsible for some of the cooler stuff we did with the zine and label. I mean the Judge 7'? Are you kidding me? That thing was totally incredible and came out of left field.
What are some other memorable shows from when you first hit New York?
Definitely, the first YOT show I saw was a life changer. Pure energy, violent dancefloor with guys doing all these wild dances that actually looked really cool, along with a message that I could get with. I saw the Bad Brains and Cro-Mags at some burnt-out squat on 8th street down by Ave. C. I think I caught one Bad Brains song before the power got cut off. That neighborhood was so sketchy back then. That first road trip I took with YOT down to Philly. It was in this club that was upstairs and you had to lug all the gear up two or three flights of stairs. It also had this rickety balcony that was right over the stage and gave you a really great vantage of what was happening. I wish I could remember what the name of that place was. The van that YOT had was probably about a 1970 Econoline with no seats in the back and leaking floorboards. It was a cold, wet, and miserable trip back to New York. I was usually recruited for driving duties, as I was often one of the only people who had a driver's license. I often think about playing those shows in Jersey, Philly, DC, and anywhere south of New York City and knowing that you're almost home when you would see the twin towers on the horizon over the Jersey Turnpike. After driving back to NY after that YOT Philly show, Ray just parked that van on 14th Street took the plates off of it, and wrote it off. I thought that was pretty irresponsible but punk and cool at the same time. Not as early, but another show from those days is the shutdown show at CB's. I was playing in Side by Side at that point and I think it was the first time playing on stage and realizing the real power that music had over people.
What can you tell me about the Shutdown show?
The Shutdown show was notable because Hilly had enacted a no-stage diving policy after he had been sued by someone who got injured at a show there. The gigantic bouncers were in force and instructed to keep shit in order. It must have been Dennis and Camouflage Charlie. What a thankless job that was! Bouncing a hardcore show. Ugh.
The lineup was The Pagan Babies, Side by Side, GB, and YOT. I don't think there was any sort of conspiracy to sandbag Hilly's wish for there to be a calm show but it was just too much of a good opportunity to let go to waste. SBS played second and we had a great reaction. GB was great too but by the time YOT took the stage, the place was really ready to erupt. Ray took that energy like a judo master and flipped it back on itself. My most vivid memory of that show is a pile of bodies pushed up against the ceiling above the stage. It was like some weird creature from a Japanese horror movie or Bosch painting. Really primal dude stuff. It must have taken more than a year for any of us to get back in good graces with Karen or Hilly. YOT got a lot of shit for fucking the shows at CB's up but it was bound to happen anyway.
Have you ever heard the rumor that Ray caused that ruckus at CBGB’s to get people to come to The Pyramid shows he and Raybeez were doing?
I have never heard that theory on Ray having an ulterior motive; to have a monopoly on Hardcore matinees. As far as people having a problem with the part of the scene that I gravitated towards, who knows. Cappo did a lot for the scene in terms of having a great band and inspiring people to do something along with founding a label to promote that scene. Maybe he was seen as an outsider by the older kids because he came from Connecticut although I think his parents were actually from Brooklyn. I was a total outsider and maybe that's why I was attracted to that scene, they were people who I could relate to. Ultimately it feels like that whole scene was just an extension of all the cliques in high school. I think that tension and agitation spurred people to push themselves but that may be overthinking it.
I never really think about all the schism back then but there were always people trying to knock each other down. The straight edge thing was totally anathema to the storied legacy of NYC rock and roll and underground and punk scenes. Project X was a direct response to the people who were talking shit. I don't know if it's actually tongue in cheek but it was really fun to put something so polemical out there and wait for people to take the bait. As I sort of alluded to previously, I feel like I was in a bit of a bubble and didn't incur the wrath of the adversaries. You would always hear people talking shit and get bad vibes from certain people but whatever, history speaks for itself and so much of what we made has stood the test of time while the others have faded into obscurity.
What did you do for the rest of the 90s?
I got kicked out of GB in late 1990 or so. There was really not much happening in the hardcore world that kept my interest. Shows were often violent and not too much fun unless you were looking for a fight. One of the great things to come out of that scene were the bands that went on to try and break out of the box. Quicksand is the most obvious example of taking the hardcore vibe, ethos, heaviness, whatever adjective you want to ascribe to it, and threw in more esoteric influences. I saw their first show at ABC No Rio and was so psyched to see the potential that lay beyond the horizon of four-chord, verse, chorus, mosh style hardcore(not that that's bad...I still love it). So yeah, I pretty much bowed out of the scene after being out of GB. I lived in NYC for another 5 years or so but was much more interested in checking out new things than getting stagnant.
Thanks for talking, man. It was a lot of fun.
I really wish I had a clearer, more precise memory of those days but it's really just a blur of faces and places and sounds and smells. It's funny after GB got back together in 2005 for the CB's show, we did a bunch of tours and shows and I can remember so much more than I could from back in the day. I often wonder why that is....maybe when you're too young to realize you're in the middle of something cool and unique, you don't take the time to make some visual snapshots of the moment. Luke from GB has the best memory of the guys in GB.