Matt Warnke

Photo: Ken Salerno

This interview with Matt Warnke (vocalist for Bold, One-Sided War and Running Like Thieves) was conducted in 2013 for my second book, NYHC: New York Hardcore 1980 – 1990

How and when did you first become aware of NYHC?

Matt Warnke: I first became aware of NYHC bands through various outlets; really it was mostly through osmosis as was much of how we all got involved back then. Katonah, where we grew up, is only forty miles north of the city, and is conveniently located on a commuter railroad which would get you into midtown Manhattan in forty-five minutes. So we were always venturing into the city and couple that with having older siblings and other friends with older siblings who had an ear to the ground, we went from being aware of The Sex Pistols and The Clash and New Wave to wanting to know what was happening in the present of 1985. I remember going into the local paper and smoke shop every week in K-Town and looking through Creem and Circus and Hit Parader and then eventually The Village Voice, and starting to look at the listings for live music, having started the band with Drew and Tim and Zulu and being ambitious, envisioning ourselves up on stage somewhere. I started to keep an eye on what was going on at CBGB’s and seeing names of bands I recognized from being written on the walls at John Jay High School. Once we started heading into the city on our own as like, thirteen or fourteen-year-olds we had to ask ourselves, “Where do you gravitate?” Times Square may be at first, but then downtown. I remember going to the original 99X and leafing through all of the records in the Punk/Hardcore section. Duane Rossingnol was working there and trying to be helpful. I remember going to skate shops around Washington Square Park and buying my G&S Neil Blender board. Probably on the same day, we went to Bleeker Bob’s and while looking through the Hardcore section, Brad Batmite who went on to play Rhythm Guitar in Warzone told me to buy 7 Seconds The Crew. Zulu, Drew and I went to Ratcage Records when it was a store because we got the address from an ad for Victim in Pain, and also to look at skate hardware. I remember walking in and being greeted by Dave Ratcage in a dress. I walked out with Victim in Pain on cassette. So these are all just snapshots and memories, but they were our early inroads into something we knew we wanted to become a larger part of.

What was the first piece of vinyl that made you want to be a part of the NYHC scene?

I would say Victim in Pain was the record that initially made the biggest impact on us as far as defining and characterizing the New York sound. Again, I first heard this record before I met Ray Cappo or John Porcelly, I just heard it as someone who was listening to music and there was something about the production, the tones, the imperfection, the urgency, the relevancy, that transcended. I started out loving Rock and Roll at the age of nine, The Stones, The Doors, New Wave, Punk, but this record was here and now. Now, I will say the same about all of the early Hardcore I was drawn to: Minor Threat, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Dead Kennedys, but knowing Agnostic Front was a New York band, and just having the experience of walking in and buying their record from the source made it feels more immediate. Also, and this is something that can’t fully be described or articulated without venturing into cliche and over-romanticism, but just as California bands incorporate their living and breathing into their output whether it’s The Beach Boys or The Circle Jerks, or midwest bands from Bob Seger to Negative Approach, there is some inexorable, just out of reach, undefinable, unspoken yet understood element to regional sounds and bands which is perfectly captured on Victim in Pain.

How big of a role did Ray Cappo and John Porcelly of Youth Of Today play in your Hardcore upbringing?

Our initial exposure to Hardcore was not through Youth Of Today as I detailed. However, there was an expansion certainly by virtue of them lending us their record collection. Hearing The Abused and Antidote and telling us stories of their experiences at matinees, it was engrossing. We ourselves were familiar with the music of The Bad Brains, Reagan Youth, Kraut, The Mob, Major Conflict just from our own forays into the city and record buying but Ray and John sped up the indoctrination. I remember early on the first summer we started hanging out, driving into the city with Youth Of Today, Pete from Verbal Assault and Becky Tupper when the Cro-Mags demo had just been released. We were in the Verbal Assault van, driving down the West Side Highway straight downtown. We bought the tape at a record shop on 1st Ave whose name escapes me and just tripped out on it. A cultural shift.

Photo: Facebook

What were some of the first shows you attended in the city?

I remember the first shows in the city I attended were at CB’s in 1985. However, there is a caveat: Keep in mind I was like thirteen or fourteen depending on the month that year, and CB’s wouldn’t let you in if you were under sixteen, so much of my attending was me hanging out out front. Crippled Youth played our first show at CB’s in June of 1986 with Rest In Pieces, Warzone, and Youth of Today. I was able to play because Karen called my parents to verify my age, who, despite their strong Catholic beliefs, lied for their son that day. As far as what I remember as to the overall vibe, t was almost surreal in a way because here I was, having read in either Maximum Rock ‘N’ Roll or Guillotine about various people in bands and all of a sudden I was ten feet away from them, and soon introduced to them. There were a mythology and folklore element to it, but at the same time, I felt included, noted.

When do you feel the Straight Edge thing really took a hold on the NYHC scene?

When Ray and John moved into the city sometime in 1986. Ray got an apartment on 15th between 8th and 9th and it was a great location because it was kind of off the beaten path at that point but a twenty-minute walk from the action. So we would always head down there from K-Town on the weekends and it just became our headquarters. I remember so many nights just hanging out downtown with those guys. It was an expanding circle with Mark Ryan, Mark ‘Goober” McNeilly, Craig Setari, Tommy Carroll. We would just hang out on Ave A until the sun came up.

When you see pictures from that time, it’s like certain people with X’s on their hands and that did sort of giving an evangelical bent to the whole thing; like loaves and fishes or whatever metaphor you might want to use. But at the same time, of course, there was resistance and personalities who pushed against it. I think overall, a void was stepped into, and the energy, charisma, message, focus, not to mention songs, infused a great deal of life into what I’m now objectifying in my mind as far as the venue of CB’s every Sunday, but just the Lower East Side in general.

What are your memories from Some Records?

My memories of Some Records are that of a headquarters. It was right down the street from CB’s so inevitably, it was something of a halfway house for people killing time or getting a pulse of different releases. Duane was always very welcoming and engaging and avuncular.

Out of all the early NYHC releases, which made the most impact on you?

I would say it was both The Abused Loud and Clear ep and Antidote Thou Shalt Not Kill ep’s that made a huge impact on me, and this many years on, it’s difficult to say which was more significant. I think The Abused ep is less heralded, but in many ways, a pure template for much of what followed. Thou Shalt Not Kill is one of the singular sickest, most perfect blasts of hardcore ever created, but I don’t believe the band itself ever achieved anything close to it live, or had a presence about them in the scene to match the recording.

What are your memories of Warzone?

They were integral to the Lower East Side and East Village at the time. One random memory was myself and whoever the fuck I was with walking up Third Ave in the spring of ’86, and a Limo pulls over, window pulls down, and it’s Batmite, Todd Youth and these girls straight out of a Robert Palmer video just having it large; a day in the life. The first time I saw Warzone at CB’s, I was standing by the side of the stage, this would be the line-up with Charlie, Tito, Brad, Todd, and Ray, and it was just all neighborhood people on the left side of CB’s stage women with big hair in leopard pants and a smoke machine going. It was fucking great.

How important were the fanzines in NYHC?

In general, they were an entry point into Hardcore for us being young kids. It was almost a way for us to research and immerse ourselves while going to our first shows. When we would head into Manhattan, whether it was to Bleeker Bob’s or Venus or 99X we would pick up vinyl and fanzines, and just go home and consume it; take it to class at John Jay and put it in our Social Studies textbook and play it off like we were following what Mr. Sheeran was saying, meanwhile reading the show review for Agnostic Front and Mental Abuse. Maximum Rock ‘N’ Roll was also a then relatively available source, an abundant, monthly overload of information/distribution/releases/scene reports – and as someone just trying to absorb as much as I could about this subculture I was immersing myself more and more into, it was a tremendous resource, albeit one with its own leanings, opinions, and favorites; among the more well known being the fanzine’s back and forth with Agnostic Front, and what the San Francisco based publication felt were elements of the New York scene which bordered on right-wing,violent,intolerant attitudes.

Among the ‘zines we would pick up on a regular basis, I always loved Guillotine. It was just chock full of show reports from basically every show that happened in the city, tons of crucial photos. I alluded to Maximum Rock N Roll a moment ago for its International scope, well Guillotine was just basically a weekly chronicle of the NY scene, although if anything, it had a great open ear for out of town bands. I feel in retrospect it was produced by people who were primarily concerned with good music and message and didn’t play favorites.

Schism, produced primarily by Alex Brown with John Porcelly’s input, was obviously very well produced, with an insider’s access. However, let’s not forget Alex had put out Loveseat fanzine when he was still living in Iowa, and his first love being graphic design and being an accomplished artist, it set a very high standard. Boiling Point was great as well, and many of the interviews that resulted from those respective fanzines are definitive narratives and insights into the hearts and minds which shaped late ’80s NYHC.

Photo: JJ Gonson

Why do you think the skinhead thing took hold in the NYHC scene?

The skinhead thing in New York was manifested and real, but it’s a many-layered thing. I may not be the authority on its origins since I wasn’t around in the early ’80s, but my take on it would be; you have to realize when the NY Hardcore scene as it went on to be known was not very far removed in time from the Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Dolls, The Heartbreaker and you had all of those bands playing in the city (with the exception of the Pistols, but Sid de-camping in Manhattan after the band imploded), so a lot of the cats who made up the early scene were around the British bands or those who had traveled and played in England. Plus you had great records coming out whether it be The Specials or Blitz, Cockney Rejects, who looked cool as fuck, and all of these early elements informed the look of the early scene. Plus, the ethos of a lot of those British bands were working class, disenfranchised which appealed to the hearts of many. So it became a bit of a blueprint or starting point. However, unlike what the term skinhead has gone on to connote, I am certain, in my experience, that among those who even semi-embodied it in the NY scene, it did not in any way, define itself by racial intolerance. It stemmed more from Mod British origins, whose soundtrack was primarily R&B, Reggae, Rock-Steady, and Ska. So it’s interesting, from a sociological standpoint even, how trends or influences shape things. In New York, the skinhead vibe was there, but from day one, whether it was Ray and Porcell, or us plus Mark and Supertouch, Warzone, and Richie BIrkenhead there was also the aesthetic of like high-tops and hooded sweatshirts and baseball hats. Whether you want to say we co-opted the oncoming hip-hop scene and mixed it with existing skinhead trappings it did lead to what you would now define as Youth Crew. And in some ways it was conscious, but in a lot of other ways, it was just what we rocked every day. That’s where I sort of drew the line with some of what other people were wearing. I was more inclined to go to Orchard Street or Rivington Street and try to pick up sneakers I saw Rakim wearing in the “I Ain’t No Joke” video than I was to wear what someone was wearing on a record from England. That’s even what I loved about bands from the Midwest who just got up on stage and wore flannel shirts, ripped jeans, or bands from California who looked like they just came from shredding a pool or half-pipe wearing Vans, etc. Represent who you are and where you come from.

What was the reaction to Crippled Youth on the NYHC initially?

In the beginning, the reaction towards Crippled Youth was, for the most part, welcoming. When we played our first CB’s matinee in June of ’86, I was surprised how many people were upfront and singing the words when the record wasn’t even out yet. So yeah, from early on, there was a groundswell of support for us from a mix of people in the scene. We had immediate support, kinship from people who had been around for a few years like the Death Before Dishonor guys, and then people who were sort of just coming up like ourselves, like Straight Ahead. Through the aforementioned, and Ray and John we basically met most everyone, and in hindsight, most people were incredibly cool and inclusive. I remember walking down Fourth Street after playing our first matinee, and hearing….”Hey! Crippled Youth!”, looking up and it was some of the Warzone women, as they were then known, toasting us from an apartment window.

At the same time, there was no doubt, resistance, resentment. I may be forgetting just how much as we all tend to remember the good times as a general human tendency. One incident, in particular, occurred after Crippled Youth had a feature in Maximum Rock ‘N’ Roll right around the release of our first EP, Join The Fight. It was a one-page feature which we garnered through our label, New Beginning Records and its’ founder, Mike Trouchon. The piece was fairly innocuous in general, and I was just basically completely psyched, looking forward to being in the ‘zine I had read about so many bands in prior. One of the questions was something along the lines of: How do you feel about yourselves and other Straight Edge bands getting flack for stating your beliefs? Drew our drummer responded by drawing the analogy between us and other Straight Edge bands championing our beliefs and day to day habits with those of Murphy’s Law, and how they sang proudly of their party-loving ways, and no one minding or questioning them for it. I remember when the issue was published, and reading it and being psyched, but having this bad feeling in the back of my mind that this would not go unnoticed. Fast forward to say six weeks later. I’m at a show at The Ritz, not sure who headlined, but Murphy’s Law was playing. About midway through the set, Jimmy is introducing a song, I want to say, “Care Bear” and he basically calls out Crippled Youth for having the audacity to say something about his band. I just remember it felt like a spotlight shone right on me, and everyone who was near me stepped back six feet. I’m thinking, “Thanks, Drew.” Mark Ryan comes up to me and is like “Don’t worry about it, I’ll talk to those guys and straighten it out.” So their set ends and Mark insists we head backstage and iron it out. I just remember the looks I got from Petey Hines (Murphy’s Law drummer) Joe Bruno (Murphy’s Law roadie) I’m trying to be tough, but I’m like fourteen years old facing these cats. Anyway, nothing was really resolved that night despite Mark speaking on our behalf. So, the next day, I had stayed over in New Jersey with the Death Before Dishonor guys and we head into Manhattan to the CB’s matinee as per usual. I just remember being in the back of Mike Ferraro’s Camaro, I don’t think we really talked about it too much, but there was a sort of underlying concern of what could happen. I just remember walking down Third Ave towards CB’s, I think Mark again had a word with Gestapo, and Jimmy just came over and shook my hand, made a joke, and that was that.