This interview with Sean Muttaqi founder of Vegan Reich was conducted in March of 2015 for my third book, Straight Edge: A Clear-Headed Hardcore Punk History.
Before we get into anything regarding Punk or Hardcore anything like that, I’m curious about your upbringing. Where did you grow up and what kind of family life did you have? Do you think the way you were brought up had anything to do with getting into Punk?
Sean Muttaqi: I’m from Southern California. As far as family life, my parents were divorced, and things were fairly volatile growing up between them, so I think like many of my generation – when the punk rock explosion happened – the energy and anger of it, definitely struck a chord we could relate to. As far as the life I ended up choosing long term – my parents ultimately still had an influence there, in that they were both musicians, and into leftist politics – so once the sort of initial angry punk phase wore off, it was a lot of their upbringing that took hold, in terms of being more politically active, trying to lead an artistic life and so on…
How did you initially become aware of Punk?
I was a very young skater in the late ’70s, hanging out with mostly older kids. You couldn’t avoid hearing punk at that time. But it hadn’t clicked with me yet as a scene. I was just into smoking pot and listening to whatever the older kids were playing – Sabbath, Cheap Trick, Marley – with some punk worked in. Mostly Sex Pistols, and The Clash, etc. But I was too young to really connect to any scene at that point. It wasn’t until ‘81 when I got exposed to the local scene, that I actually became a punk, shaved my head, got some combat boots, etc.
Did you actually find a resonance with a band like Minor Threat or SSD initially? From my research, it seemed like you were someone that responded more to the Anarcho punk scene in the UK with Flux Of Pink Indians, Conflict, etc.
I did not find resonance with Minor threat or SSD. In the early 80’s it was all about the California scene to me with Black Flag, Social Distortion, Shattered Faith, TSOL, Circle Jerks, and the Dead Kennedys. Of course, I had the Minor Threats 7 inches- but in terms of a scene, the straight edge was definitely not something we were into on the west coast in those early days. If anything started actually having more of an influence on some of us, it was the British stuff. I’d already been a big fan of reggae and the whole Two-Tone Ska revival, so for me and my particular crew – Oi!, with its whole skinhead ska connection was a big draw. In fact, my first band was an Oi! band. But politics and vegetarian inclinations ultimately ended up drawing me to the anarcho-punk movement. Flux of Pink Indians Neu Smell 7 inch turned me vegetarian overnight. Conflict’s To A Nation of Animal Lovers made me militant about it.
You state that it was the Anarcho-Punk scene that inspired you to be vegetarian, etc. Was it this same scene that made you aware of veganism?
In the early days, it was more of a general vegetarianism that was being promoted – and it took a couple of years for me to even hear about the concept of Veganism. At some point, I got in touch with Jay Dinshah of the American Vegan Society, who sent me out a bunch of literature, and cookbooks – and that was that. Once I saw the connection between the Dairy Industry and the exploitation of animals, there was no way I was going to continue eating eggs and dairy products. I switched from vegetarianism to vegan at 16. As far as how hard it was? Well, in the sense that I’ve always been a very disciplined person – it wasn’t that hard. But in terms of relating it to now, there was no Vegan food industry in the United States at that time; at least not like there is now.. We were able to find Chinese style soymilk, and Tofu – but for a number of years, it was mostly whole grains and beans. So let’s just say – my kids are growing up not knowing how lucky they have it.
When did you start to become involved in actions that some would consider militant in regards to animal liberation?
I think for legal reasons, that’s a question best not answered.
When did Vegan Reich become a band? Explain the origins as deeply as possible. Were there any bands you were in prior to them?
I was in an Oi! Band in the early ’80s, and as a very young kid, in a rock band in the late 70’s doing cover songs.
Vegan Reich had it’s initial genesis as an idea and crew, before becoming a band. As militant animal liberation activists within the Anarchist community, the majority of whom were carnivores at that time – our ideas were constantly derided as being fascist -albeit somewhat jokingly – by those who felt we wanted to take away their rights to eat meat. In response to that, we labeled ourselves Vegan Reich. At a certain point, we decided to further promote our ideas via music, and Vegan Reich the band was born. We recorded our first song in 1986.
When did you become aware that the Straight Edge scene of the late ’80s and how Youth Of Today spread the message of vegetarianism throughout it?
Straight Edge was generally off my radar for most of the ’80s. I had some contact with Ian MacKaye in regards to his appearance on an animal rights benefit record we did, but that was long after his involvement in the straight edge scene. Really, the first person I knew that was Straight Edge – as opposed to just being drug-free – was Dave Stein – a long-time figure in NYHC, who I became friends with in 1987 after he wrote me and bought the ALF Is Watching compilation I had released.
When I later heard some of the guys in Youth Of Today, Gorilla Biscuits and Judge were vegetarian, I definitely thought it was cool; especially since they had arrived at some similar conclusions in an entirely different scene. And certainly, it was that scene that later on became most receptive to Hardline ideas – enabling it to grow from Idea to movement.
How did the idea of Hardline come into your mind? Was this concept already hatched prior to finding out about the Straight Edge scene’s interest in animal rights?
The establishment of Hardline as a concept or ideology was really a cumulative process that happened over many years, and although maybe not what someone writing a book on straight edge wants to hear, had almost nothing to do with straight edge. That association was later and had more to do with the genesis from an ideology into movement. But as far as it’s formation, I guess one could say all the influences from my youth onward – growing up the way I did and all the elements that were directly or indirectly around me over the years. Liberation Theology, NOI, AIM, Anarchism, Rastafarianism, Move, Oi!, Punk Rock and so on.
In terms of markers in time, where I can see – at least from my own perspective- to have progressed from one mode to another –the following things were pretty formative moments of coming into my own, apart from any cultural or political aspects of my upbringing – things that would definitely lead up to Hardline. As mentioned before, Flux Of Pink Indian’s influence on becoming vegetarian; Conflict in regards to a more militant approach to animal liberation; Rudimentary Peni’s influence to not do drugs. And my friend Rat from England is a great motivator to stop drinking.
As far as individual events that were some type of catalyst that started the process of physically forming something new from a lifetime of influences and experiences- I can definitely say that process began at the 1986 Anarchist gathering. It was the starting point of our small group’s discontent within the Anarchist movement over the issue of animal liberation. Two years later, the excessive behavior we witnessed at the 1988 Toronto Anarchist gathering was the nail in the coffin and the realization that we needed to form some new construct to work within. That was essentially the start of the process, and within the next few months, Hardline was born.
I think it’s interesting that the Hardline thing grew out of the Straight Edge movement rather than the Anarcho-punk scene. Was it a conscious effort to spread that message among the Straight Edge scene? Did you think the people involved in that scene had more intensity and energy than those in the Anarcho scene? Who did you first contact within the Straight Edge scene with this idea of Hardline?
Back in the mid-’80s, we had been involved at an ROP (Regional Occasional Program) printing class – basically a trade school – in this case, a program teaching how to use a printing press, old school typesetting, etc. The teacher was sympathetic, and for years let us use the facilities to print a ton of anarchist literature – the original inserts of the ALF Is Watching LP were printed there, as were earlier anarchist magazines and pamphlets. After being away from it for a couple years, we dropped by to print some Hardline pamphlets and ended up meeting a couple of straight-edge kids, one a skinhead, the other a more Posi-Youth Crew type. Around the same time, Rat from the band Statement started using the term Vegan Straight Edge. He’s actually the originator of that term.
Anyway – having sort of burnt out on the current state of the Anarchist scene at the time, and being more focused on Animal Liberation issue, we wanted to expand our message to a different scene and started talking to these kids about veganism, and they were really receptive. As a sort of easy descriptive thing, in the beginning, Vegan Straight Edge was used when talking to straight edge kids as a way to introduce them to Hardline. As it grew, some became Hardline, and others felt more comfortable with the Vegan Straight Edge moniker.
And overall, yes – at that stage, the Straight Edge scene was more vibrant and energetic than what the Anarcho-Punk scene had become. That wasn’t something inherently different, it just had to do with at what point in time each scene was residing in, in terms of their arc of ascent and descent. The Anarcho-Punk movement had seen better days even by the mid-’80s. And clearly, the latter part of that decade belonged to the Straight Edge scene. At any rate, It wasn’t long before our initial crew of older Anarchist types, was growing with new blood from a younger scene not originally our own – and in that environment, you can say Hardline began to emerge from idea to action – from concept to movement.
How did you begin correspondence with people in bands like Raid?
With the birth of Hardline, I decided to stop doing my old Anarchist record label, and form a new one with the sole intent of promoting Hardline. In 1989 we put out an ad in Maximum Rock ‘N’ Roll announcing some planned record releases, largely in order to make connections with other like-minded people. The response was amazing. We were immediately getting letters from all over the world. From that initial seed, Hardline started sprouting up around the country – as well as overseas, but most notably in terms of concentrated numbers – in areas like Memphis and Indianapolis, followed later by Syracuse and Salt Lake City. After Vegan Reich, Raid and Hardball were probably the two earliest American bands with Hardline members.
Can you elaborate a little on the importance of Raid and the Memphis scene in the formative years of the Hardline movement?
Memphis was unique in terms of how much Hardline quickly came to dominate the whole scene there. Not just with straight edge kids either. After we went through Memphis on our way to the Washington DC animal rights march in 1990, even some of the Memphis punk kids had become Hardline; longtime animal rights campaigner JP Goodwin being one such example. And for a brief and vibrant period, Memphis definitely became the place where Hardline first transformed into a functional scene – becoming the center stage of the bourgeoning movement. All these years later, many might know more about Raid than the other groups or activists out of Memphis because of the records on Hardline as well as the later re-release on Victory. But multiple Hardline activists, zines and bands had flourished there. It’s where the Hardline ‘Survival Of The Fittest’ gatherings were first organized, which in turn further helped Hardline develop and spread around the world. It’s also where some of the first Hardline activists were arrested for direct action. Memphis felt like a home away from home to us, – and of course, Raid was one of the key drivers of that Memphis scene. Being the first Hardline band to have come from the Straight Edge movement, they certainly helped Hardline expand into that realm in ways Vegan Reich would have had a harder time with. So even though a lot of Hardline and Straight Edge people gave or give Raid shit for selling out so quickly, I don’t think you can take away their importance. They certainly had a very influential aesthetic role as well on what would become the Vegan Straight Edge movement. You can definitely hear their musical influence in early Earth Crisis.
What was your initial vision for the Hardline movement? Were your goals for it to be a sub-scene in Straight Edge?
My goals were actually pretty grandiose, so I’m not surprised in terms of having made an impact and left a legacy within the history of Punk or its subsets of Hardcore and Straight Edge. If it had been a sort of accidental situation that may be a different answer. But Hardline was purposeful from the start. That said – in regards to the specifics of Hardline’s emergence as a sub-scene within Straight Edge, I feel a little bitter-sweet about it. On the one hand, there’s no denying that Straight Edge was the scene where Hardline really took off. On the other hand, I think it was precisely it residing in that milieu than caused it to be misunderstood, and part of the reason for my disbanding Vegan Reich in 1992 and leaving Hardline as well. My initial vision for the whole thing, had been something that merged Anarchism with elements of American radical groups such as AIM, Move, Black Panthers, Nation and so on with a sort of universal spiritual esotericism – that incorporated things – in my particular case – from Rastafarianism, Buddhism, Taoism, and Islam, and from others in our circle – Christianity and Judaism. Having been through earlier movements, both Punk and Anarchist, that were derailed by drug and alcohol use – and simultaneously being heavily immersed in martial arts at the time; there was definitely a notion of creating an almost monastic movement, whose sole purpose was self-negation for the sake of the struggle. To create an effective revolutionary force…And I don’t think that was a wrong impulse at the time. But unfortunately, there were other streams of thought that I think had come to dominate the general culture of straight edge– namely a sort of Nietzschean Will To Power, and rigid mindset, not to mention a sort of general conservatism, that created a situation where Hardline couldn’t be perceived outside of that mentality. It affected how others viewed us, and even sometimes how certain people within Hardline viewed themselves. One where the notion of purity ceased to be a tool for self-negation (for the sake of the greater good) – and instead became a basis for self-aggrandizing, and worship of the self. In that regard, I’m torn about Hardline’s association with Straight Edge.
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